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Mark Bevis's avatar

As a military historian I agree that most revolutions are just the elites infighting. Over production of elites follows general overproduction of humans however. Am reading a lot on British colonial wars of the 19th century, it is clear that the UK's elite overproduction of elites was thinned out on the obscure battlefields of Asia and Africa as captains and colonels in regiments, but there never seemed to be a shortage of people to step up and take their place.

I suspect the continual wars in Europe through the ages was another source of thinning out elite overproduction. With the advent of the Cold War that all changed, on top of the rate of increase in population generally increasing massively. Now we have over-produced elites running podcasts on Youtube 'cos they've nowt else to do :)

The problem is of course if the peasants banded together and abolished all the elites - Pink Floyd's The Fletcher Memorial Home is a good variant - all that would happen is that the previously poor narcissists & psychopaths would then float to the top and become the next new elites and the process starts again.

The latter is tied in with the work of anthropologists - whenever a society or community practices restraint in an attempt to become sustainable within limits, it only takes one neighbouring society or community that doesn't do that to then overrun or absorb the community practising restraint.

So again, everything boils down to overpopulation. When human populations were under 30 million, the individual groups had room to walk away from depleted zones or other aggressive anti-social groups, so conflict in the military sense wasn't a thing. Lets not forget though, for all the other species on the planet, humans have always been a source of conflict, because where ever we went, extinctions followed.

MouseInCathedral's avatar

I find Turchin's theory of Elite Overproduction fascinating, yet I find problems in comparing our current societies to past ones. Peter Turchin takes a college education to be a marker of "elite aspirant" status in today's world, whereas titles of nobility and property were used in past ages. Surely education differs from inherited wealth in some essential ways, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

Turchin's theory also leads us to another predicament. College education for the masses in theory leads to a frustrated mass of elite aspirants who inevitably radicalize and destabilize societies. Yet, how are democratic societies supposed to function without a critical mass of well educated people forming a "knowledgeable and alert citizenry?" (To quote Eisenhower. Although many would argue this state of affairs has never existed.)

This is especially true today since it takes a degree of concrete knowledge about science and the ability to reason abstractly and extrapolate to understand the seriousness of resource and environmental limits. I would never have been able to appreciate this blog, for instance, or comprehend our current predicament without the technical and historical knowledge I gained from college. And I suspect many readers feel he same. But if everyone goes to college we would be even more fucked, apparently.

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