Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Gail Tverberg's avatar

Thanks for documenting some of the problems occurring. I talk about very much related topics in my new post https://gailtverberg.substack.com/p/2024-too-many-things-going-wrong

I have been writing on OurFiniteWorld.com, powered by Wordpress, but I have been having issues I need their tech support to fix. The above mentioned post is my first Substack post.

Expand full comment
Steve  Bull's avatar

One cannot say we don't live in interesting times. Throw on top of the cyclical process of societal growth/collapse the ecological overshoot predicament we've led ourselves into and things look pretty grim depending upon one's perspective.

I 'discovered' Tainter's The Collapse of Complex Societies shortly after falling into the rabbit's hole of Peak Oil. It is one of the best theses I have read regarding our species' tendencies once large, complex societies arose; and I highly recommend its reading. I depend upon and use his ideas about 'collapse' often in my writing.

In this piece (https://stevebull-4168.medium.com/todays-contemplation-collapse-cometh-cv-fb31a90f8b00) I shared Tainter's prognosis for what does come after the pre-collapse phase, that can perhaps be used as a 'guideline' for a community's 'preparations/planning' for the future.

Of particular importance is this: "Remaining populations must become locally self-sufficient to a degree not seen for several generations."

As I conclude: "This local self-reliance aspect I can see as a problem for many communities. And it may be especially so for modern society and its dependence upon technologies that will break down and/or become unusable due to their fuel/power requirements. Add to this the fact that the vast majority of regions depend significantly upon trade (or energy-averaging systems) to ensure such necessities as potable water, food, and regional shelter needs, and few if any people hold the skills/knowledge for self-sufficiency and it seems certain mass chaos will ensue.

Compounding this tragic mix for society are the dangerous complexities we’ve constructed and that require constant management and security to prevent them from breaking down and possibly resulting in massive environmental/ecological destruction: nuclear power plants with their radiogenic materials; biosafety labs and their deadly pathogens; chemical production and storage facilities and their toxic products and waste.

There are no guarantees when it comes to predictions about the future of humanity. This is particularly true when it comes to complex systems with their nonlinear feedback loops and emergent phenomena. There is almost an endless range of possibilities of what the future holds…but as Meadows et al. argue in the quote that opened this post: ā€œā€¦ the possible futures do not include indefinite growth in physical throughputs. This is not an option on a finite planet.ā€"

Expand full comment
14 more comments...

No posts